Im a total newbie at this. I read all the various guides on upgrading the hard drive and I think this is the easiest of them all.
Again like I mentioned earlier Im a newbie so maybe this is a dumb question and the answer is obvious to everyone except poor dim little me.
I read your steps 3 times but no where do I see anything about when I plug in the second hard drive and what I do with it.
Please advice.
Thanks
Jeff
Jeff - you're the man. I wrote this offline and pasted it in. I missed the part about putting the drives in. I just updated the text. THank you for spotting that. Read it and let me know if you get stuck on anything. It's always better to have a second person go through it. This way others will benefit. :-)
-tyrelPL
What is the size of the new drives that were installed in this tutorial? I am curious if you can use anything larger than 2 x 1T. I would like to use 2x 2T.
Is is possible to move all of my hacks over from my old drives to the new drives? or do i have to install the hacks from scratch?
MyBookLive Duo 4T
FeaturesPacks, Twonky, ownCloud
Gunt76,
I used 1TB drives, but I assume larger could be used. I see in the wiki other users have reported using 1.5TB. Although I think I saw somewhere a guy that had problems with 2TB drives and partitioning. I'm not sure if that's true or not. If I can find that post in here I'll edit my post and link it here.
Gunt76,
Also on your second question, since Partitions 1,2,and 3 are all copied via mirroring - they will all be intact - EXACTLY as they are. The only thing my tutorial does is copies the user data (partition 4) off to one of the "new" HDD's via your personal computer and SMB. Then later you recreate it and copy it back. The system stays the same. Did you actually READ my HOWTO? It's all explained on the wiki. Please read it completely and let me know if you have more questions……
Thanks!
Thanks for your reply. I did read your tutorial about 4 times. Some of it was a little confusing. Step 3 of backing up the MBWE shares/internal/ is confusing because it is not clear if it should be backed up to one of the new HDD's or to somewhere else. Step 7 is confusing because it is not clear what data is to be mirrored over via RAID1 - is it all partitions or just partitions 1, 2 & 3? How does the user keep the RAID1 function from wasting time on mirroring over partition 4, since the tutorial says to delete partition 4 in step 11?
MyBookLive Duo 4T
FeaturesPacks, Twonky, ownCloud
Gunt76,
I am checking the wiki entry now. I admit it isn't perfect, but thanks for your message. I will work on clarifying it if possible. Obviously this is VERY difficult stuff to explain. If I was a decent artist, I'd love to draw a picture and show how everything is connected. But just in case someone is having the same questions imagine this:
1. Mac with on of your new "upgrade" HDD's that will go into the NAs later attached via the USB-to-SATA adaptor (just like an external USB disk)
2. NAS with original drives
3. Copy all the files and stuff you have off the NAS onto this HD attached to your MAc or Windows machine. Do that by drag-n-drop or by RSYNC as discussed in the tutorial.
I know it is a difficult topic, but I will attempt to make it more simple and clear.
Regards,
tyrelPL
Gunt76,
Ok so I went back and read it and I can see how someone skimming the article could miss it. Anyhow, I changed it to have a little more explanation of what's happening. If you noticed, I added a "In a Nutshell" section before you had posted. I HOPE that a reader will understand better now.
I think you missed the point about RAID - the MBWE2 has hardware RAID. All the volumes are on RAID1. So in my HOWTO, the reader is copying all the data off the NAS. Powering the NAS off. Then removing one of the HDD's "B". Then adding in a new HDD, turing the NAS back on and formatting it and enabling RAID1 - this is all one step via the web interface. The RAID1 from the original 500GB "drive A" rebuilds itself onto the new 1TB "drive B". However, the utility leaves free space at the END of the 1TB HDD that is unused. For that reason, we copy all the user's data off FIRST. Then, we can delete that 4th partition and make it back again, but this time taking all the space available at the END of the 1TB drive.
What's next? We copy back the data to the single drive in the NAS. Once that's done the other "new" HDD is no longer needed and can be put into the NAS. After that, we format the new second "drive B" as RAID1 and the NAS automatically copies over partitions 1,2,3, and 4. Also since the two HDD's are the same size, it extends the copy use the full space of 1TB (in this example).
Along with this explanation, does it make sense now? I think you were simply getting confused by the RAID stuff. That's why my tutorial *SHOULD* be easier - You don't need to really think about RAID or partitions since they're all handled for you via the web interface.
If you read or try the other tutorials, then I think you'll see how complicated they get……… setting up a VM, getting the right versions of tools or maybe a distro you're not familiar with, using the right DD commands, knowing how to calculate where the partitions should go and how big they should be - then oops… the writer left off some important details of tools that needed to be installed -or worse -versions of needed tools are older and no longer able to be installed or downloaded, image files that need to be downloaded or copied form another machine….. it's all just overly complicated in my opinion. Obviously those other methods work for some, but I wanted to offer an alternative for those like me that wanted something a little more sure-fire. :-)
I am trying to find a way to upgrade a 2x1T White Light to a 2x2T machine
Your tuto looks like a way to do it.
Does anyone knows where the limitation can come from ?
bourgeoa,
Thanks for your question. Unfortunately, I ONLY tried this on a blue-light(2x500GB MBWE2). I have no way of testing on a white light unless someone wants to send me a white-light to test it. :-)
Remember, my method does not change the ORIGINAL HDD's inside the NAS. In theory, it should work as long as all the same commands are still present on the white-light.
I am asking for other wiki members to PLEASE help test this. We need someone who is a guru here and who has a white-light to check if my wiki method for backing up "the EASY way" actually works or not and why.
Thanks again to the community. I hope this will help those with a white-light as well. PLEASE post any updates here in this thread. Thank you!
You can definitely upsize your White Light to a 2x2T box. WD sells those sizes from the factory, so there definitely isn't any hardware restriction.
MyBookLive Duo 4T
FeaturesPacks, Twonky, ownCloud
It's good work that you've done here, when you first posted the guide it was definitely a bit all over the shop, but the improvements that you have made are definitely tidier, it's perhaps a bit misleading to call it the "EASY" way, as it's more "SAFE" than "EASY", and it's not the fastest by some margin, but it is very safe, and I recommend it for people who aren't really technical.
It does assume that you're going from a raid 1 system to another raid 1 system, so it might be wise to make this clear, don't forget that raid 1 only protects your data on that box, if a power surge wipes it out both disks could be killed and if it's stolen, it's gone, for really important data (photos etc.) I'd always maintain a physically separate copy, this can be as simple as plugging in a usb drive (and then locking it away) or another nas box in the attic or garage, with a kensington lock, if you do this then the raid is less important.
I would have thought that for the inital backup of the data and the restore using USB directly attached to the box would be quicker than SMB drag and drop, obviously it would need to be fat32 or ext3, do you suggest that way bacause of simplicity?
The "easy" way (assuming raid 1) would be (using WD disks);
1. Pop the disks out
2. Boot a live Ubuntu (or similar)
3. dd one of the disks to a new disk dd if=/dev/sdX of=/dev/sdY bs=somethingbig
4. fdisk the new sd?4 to fill the disk (delete & recreate partition)
5. ext2resize the partition to the max
6. Put both new disks in
7. Boot up and do the "format new disk" thing
Like I said, this is easy, but fraught with danger, so you need to be sure you know what you're doing, people have trashed their disks because they tried to follow more technical guides.
As for the limit of the drives, it appears that the blue ring boxes don't have large block devices compiled in so the maximum size of a device is 2Tb, this isn't a problem for the current 2Tb drives in raid 1 but you wouldn't be able to have a 4Tb linear device (would probably appear as 1Tb), I use 2x1.5Tb (WD15EARS) configured as 500Gb raid 1 and 2x1Tb unmirrored chunks, the 2x1Tb chunks back up my other two 1Tb WDBWEI.
mikeywikey,
Thanks for the feedback. I admit I'm not a linux guru, just an admin. In fact, I knew I was taking a chance with a title like "the easy way", but I want to address that and other issues you raised because I think they ARE important for readers here to understand - so they can form their own opinions and decide for themselves:
1. The guide is not called "the fastest", "the best" , or "the easiest", because I know from experience that someone will always find a better/faster/cheaper way.
2. This howto plainly states at the beginning who it is for - also at the end. It's written in a humble fashion with all credit given to the real gurus that figured it out before me. This is for beginners and intermediate users.
3. It's not a "one-size-fits-all" solution nor does it try to be. I list my reasons and WHY at the top of this wiki.
4. MISLEADING? Are you serious? Try reading the other howtos, and then try FOLLOWING them…. good luck. MANY leave out little steps or are unclear about which versions of software need to be used. My howto isn't perfect, but I try to do as much hand-holding as possible without insulting the reader.
5. External USB - easier? Did you try this WITHOUT instaling other software? I did - it's MESSY. Try explaining that to a total newbie. If you have an easy way to share, please do and I will GLADLY update this guide. I do agree with your point that it could be easier IF the USB will mount read/write easily without tons of commands and software installed. I was trying to keep the command line entries to a minimum. It's easier to tell a newbie to drag-n-drop then go have a coffee , than it is to say: "type this, this and this and configure this, and install this".
6. "EASY" is about perspective. It's totally subjective because your and my "easy way" might not be the same. "Easy" in my case was for a general user. A guru or admin doesn't really need a howto because they are gurus. Right? I wrote this for general users and I put that at the top of the wiki entry from the beginning.
7. Boot Ubuntu? On what computer? What version? What if they get the wrong version? Now you've gone WAY outside general knowledge of the basic user. This also makes the wiki MUCH harder to write and follow in my opinion. Then there are concerns about which version, and which version of utility works with which hardware, drives, etc. My guide was meant to be more universal. I also stated that a "spare computer" was not an option for me.
8a. I like your 7-step howto and I wish it was that easy. It's NOT. If it was, do you think I would write a 20 plus step howto? What about the other HOWTO's - have you read them? See how long they are and IF they even number the steps. I am open to changes that will make mine simpler/clearer and therefore more useful to a wider audience, however, it's just not that easy.
8b. I see you've been a member for 12 days. Is that correct? If so, I invite you to write a howto. Experience is the best teacher. You'll see how much work goes into it.
9. Thank you for the update on 2TB drives. I wasn't sure if they would work or not. I only advised that I had seen comments on this wiki that 1.5TB drives work. Again, thank you for the valuable info. :-)
10. As for your idea using 2 NAS devices, YES, I agree it could be a good solution - albeit one that is beyond the budget of many. For example, in Poland this NAS costs over 700 PLN while the average monthly salary is 2000 PLN. Buying two would wreck one's budget. Can you imagine? Besides, it is FAR beyond the scope of this article. This HOWTO was written expressly for those that have made the decision to upgrade the HDD's in their MBWE2 blue light NAS. It is not to debate the advantages of RAID1 over RAID0, or debate one VS two NAS devices……
Thanks again for the feedback. None of this is meant to attack you or others. It is simply to defend my position and so that other readers will get a better understanding of why I wrote the howto the way I did. As I mentioned in the first lines of the wiki, this is simply a journal of my experience doing the upgrade in my own way. I could very well be totally wrong. I accept that, although I DO want to correct errors and make it as EASY as possible. Even if it means re-thinking the entire procedure. I also think that discussion and debate of this is a VERY good thing. In my experience, this is usually how the better solutions come about. That being said, I ENCOURAGE more users/readers to write messages back just like you did so we find the truly EASY way of doing this.
Thanks again! :-)
tyrelPL
One more item I missed - RAID1:
I think in my guide it doesn't matter what the disk is BEFORE doing the upgrade. In fact, I was using a RAID0 volume and I realized how silly it was given the fact I have no other disk or backup that is online (I only had an offline backup of important stuff). You bring u pa REALLY important point, however, and I will add this to the beginning of the wiki so others are clear. THANK YOU for spotting that omission! :-)
So, to answer your concern, NO, RAID1 is not required in the beginning because I copied all my files off the NAS onto one of my new HDD's via the network.
Then, I switched the NAS to RAID1 in step 6 (I think) when I added the new "drive b".
So to recap, you CAN move from RAID0 to RAID1 doing this procedure. If you want, you can even use RAID0 if you like. However, it is outside the scope of this howto. If someone needs/wants to write the howto on that they are welcome to use/copy any part of my text. I only ask that they credit me and/or link to this wiki page so others can decide for themselves which is better.
Thanks once again! :-)
tyrelPL
I might be wrong, but I think that the box records somewhere if you're using raid 1/linear rather than just going to mdadm for it (this may be version related too), changing the disk type may not work correctly unless you do it from the GUI, as I said your guide assumes that you go from raid 1 to raid 1 (nothing wrong with that) it's just an assumption that's not mentioned.
To make the guide easy I would reccomend using WD disks, maybe not your favourite, but means no faffing arround with temp monitor (which could get overwritten by a firmware upgrade, you might want to mention that).
tyrelPL
I meant no criticism when I said misleading to call it easy, as I said it's a great guide for people who are not particully technical, the minimal number of commands to type to get the job done, and I completely reccomend it as the best way if you have very little linux experience, if however you understand Linux reasonably well then you may find it easier, faster etc. to do it a different way, it's biggest advantage (in my opinion) is that it reduces the risks of messing up your data, which is why (for the non technical) is it's huge advantage, when I say misleading I'm not criticising at all, in fact you haven't emphasised it's biggest advantage in the title, you've undersold it if you like.
#5. Needs no additional software, but I agree totally that adding a fdisk/mkfs/mount/cp -R would distract from the simplicity and safety of the article.
#6 You've hit the nail on the head here, most of the guides here are not fool proof, I found my way "easier" than yours, which gets me back to the point that you've proably written the "safe" way.
#7 I think anyone who can use vi can probably download, burn and boot a live CD, if I did write a guide then it would be no hassle to point to these steps.
#8a It was that easy for me, and I agree that the other guides are very terse, with lots of unneeded steps.
#8b Do you mean of the human race?
#10 Ahhh… budgets vs requirements, how important are your files? if they are more important than half a months salary then you'll find the money, if not you won't, I bought an empty MBWE1 for £15 and a used 2x500Gb MBEW2 for £55, you're obviously very keen on raid 1, but it's not a panacea, there's a small wedding proto/video place that went out of business because he lost all his customers work when his server was stolen (he thought raid 1 would be safe enough), that and don't forget raid 1 means that whatever you do to one drive you do to both, if you accidentially delete the files, they are gone, but a weekly usb drive copy (then put safely away) means you're safe.
I understand now. thanks for clarifying. You've actually convinced me and I changed the title to the SAFE WAY. I'm working on trying out the USB drive stuff. I had all kinds of problems with mounting it and I realized when writing this that at least for the time being it wasn't (in my opinion) the easiest.
On all the other points, I get your point. On 8b, I laughed at your sarcasm. Ok, good one. :-)
On the last point #10, there are a lot of semantics here…. but suffice it to say I had to make some assumptions and draw the line somewhere. It was more logical for me to assume one would be MUCH more likely to have one NAS than two. The next logical choice is between linear (RAID0-ish) or RAID1. Well, if I sent users unknowingly down the road of RAID0, then shame, shame on me…… because even if they could get a few extra files on the NAS now, later on WHEN the the drive or drives fail, there is almost no hope for recovery of the data or the NAS. That's akin to driving a car knowing that it will crash in the future and when it does everyone in the car will die. So what does RAID0 do? It makes the car bigger so we can put all our friends in there with us. But RAID1 comes along and at least makes a clone of all of that. You're right it is NO PANACEA or end-all solution, NOR does it claim to be. It's just a logical and again "safe" choice compared to the ones available to the user.
For what it's worth, I don't like RAID0 or RAID1, in fact I'd prefer RAID6 and full off-site redundancy and versioning of all my files, BUT I can't afford the price tag for home or even small business use. I guess that's why we all use this NAS in the first place, right? The (relative) affordability (and low power use) and obviously nothing more. :-)
I know this isn't a discussion about the relative merits of raid levels, but imagine three choices;
2Tb MBWEII (i.e. 1Tb raid 1)
Simple, all in one, fault tolerant but could be stolen or fire/overheat/power surge and die, accidental deletes mean wigig, mirror is always up to date, assuming one disk is still working you have zero data loss (unless you deleted something you shouldn't have).
2x 1Tb MBWEI
More complex (but more flexible), delayed syncronisation (overnight) means accidental deletes could be recoverable if discovered straight away (but data might be 24 hours out of date so you could lose 24 hours of updates), slightly more expensive, allows more concurrency if slightly out of date is OK.
1Tb MBWEI + 1Tb USB
Less flexible but cheapest, syncronisation could be automated when attached or manual refreshes, allows infrequent writes (less spin up, less wear) and allows secure storage, maybe leave the USB drive at work.
Three options for the home user, the cheapest *may* be the best, but it depends on your requirements, for me 2x 1Tb MBWEI is a better choice than 1x 2Tb MBWEII (and now I run a hybryd partial raid system).
MikeWikey,
I appreciate the thoughts here. I must admit "physical security" is outside the scope of my HOWTO. Anyhow, that is more of a "best practice" anyhow. It goes without saying (although we both mentioned it ;-) ) that if someone physically owns your box, they can "own" it electronically, too. Folks, make sure your NAS is physically secure and locked up, or at least hidden.
As for the merits of RAID1/RAID0, you make some good points, however, the focus on this howto was on easy/safe. I still say that "easiest/safest" is out of the box RAID1, and thusly I have tweaked my HOWTO for that.
Here's 2 more instances where the RAID1 option comes in handy:
1. Failed drive - simply replace the bad drive and RAID1 rebuilds itself. If the primary HDD goes bad, simply move "B" to the "A" position, put the new HDD in slot "B" and reboot. Done.
2. Software upgrades / experimenting - Simply take out drive "A" boot from "B" only and feel free to play. If anything goes wrong, put "A" back in and no data is lost. I only need to wait for RAID1 to automagically rebuild the volume (a few to several hours).
On your RAID ideas…. I'd REALLY (hint, hint) like you to start a separate thread or HOWTO on what you did and why because I personally think there is a LOT of merit in doing the partitions and RAID your way. Once you write it, please put a link in this thread so others can follow it and vice-versa. :-)
Thanks for your contributions to this conversation/HOWTO. It made it really enjoyable for me!
P.S. - I wholehearted agree if the budget allows that 2 geographically distinct AND physically SECURE locations are used for backup and mirroring using SSH/RSYNC/TAR/CRON.
